Posts by Cold Steel

49

Do religious people fear that their religion may be wrong???

by James Mixon in

because there are so many religions in the world and it is obvious that no matter what the truth is, a large population of people will be wrong about it.

we at one time believe we had the truth and 99% of the world population were in darkness, but i wonder about folks in other religions today.

speaking with a christian friend about this and he told me," that's for god to decide, i hope i'am serving god"...the sad thing about all of this if one die and still believe in his religion, he will never know he was in the wrong religion.

Cold Steel

David_Jay » The idea that people should be subject to proselytizing, being told they must change their current convictions or even some of their cultural traits or beliefs less they get less of a reward than others in eternity, that I find appalling. As long as my neighbor is just, they needn't be anything more than they already are. ... Proselytizing, as you know, is considered an act of anti-Semitism by Jews when Mormons attempt it with us. And I personally view the act just as insulting of an action toward anyone else for it tells a person that they have change something or lose out for not doing so.

It's unfortunate that some Jews have these views, but Christianity came forth from Judaism and it revealed many things the Jews didn't know. In Christian dogma, Jesus not only is the Messiah, he is the God of Israel and the redeemer and savior of mankind. At the time Gabriel appeared to Zachariah in the temple and later to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus, the Jews had not had a prophet for 400 years and were again in a state of apostasy. Jesus taught them about life after death, the purpose of life, the consequences of sin and the redemption of man.

Today Jews may not agree with the revelations of God to the early Christians, just as many Gentiles reject the revelations of God to Joseph Smith and other prophets. In both cases the word of God came just as it did anciently. In both movements there were miracles and witnesses (just as there were in the days of Moses). In each case where Smith received authority from angelic ministers, one other man was present, thus fulfilling the ancient law of witnesses. Three men witnessed the angel and the metal plates of the Book of Mormon, and eight others saw only the plates. My point is that the Jews might consider that their beliefs may need to be updated.

Why would God create man with no eternal soul, give him laws and give them land if this is all there is? And if what we say is true, or if we simply believe it to be true, why would the Jews be offended that we would want to share that with them. (No one's holding a sword to their throats as some other religions do.)

In our theology, we are not yet sent to the Jews. What began with the Jews is now the days of the Gentiles, and when the Gentiles reject it (as prophesied), it will again go to the house of Israel. Thus the first shall become last and the last will become first. And, as in the days of Jesus, we really have no choice but to make the Jews, at that time, subject to proselytizing because, like it or not, the day is coming according to our beliefs, when the Jews will be converted to Jesus Christ in a single day:

“And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet? Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was a wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God. And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king. And then shall the a heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.”

Finally, the Book of Mormon prophet Nephi wrote:

“At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them. And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them. And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.” (3 Nephi 16:10-12)

Jews should not be offended because of our beliefs because what's the harm in it? If Jesus is the Messiah, the King, the God of Israel, wouldn't they want to know that? If it was he who conversed with Moses for hours at a time and gave Israel its Law, why would that be offensive to them? And if Christianity and Mormonism is naught but a sham, all they have to say is no! We don't agree. But if it's not a sham, we really have no more choice than than the early Christian movement under Peter. According to NT scripture, the resurrected Christ spent 40 days with his apostles, teaching them the mysteries of the kingdom of God. This is the way he has always taught his people, life upon line. We certainly mean no offense to Jews by seeking to share with them a knowledge of their own God.

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49

Do religious people fear that their religion may be wrong???

by James Mixon in

because there are so many religions in the world and it is obvious that no matter what the truth is, a large population of people will be wrong about it.

we at one time believe we had the truth and 99% of the world population were in darkness, but i wonder about folks in other religions today.

speaking with a christian friend about this and he told me," that's for god to decide, i hope i'am serving god"...the sad thing about all of this if one die and still believe in his religion, he will never know he was in the wrong religion.

Cold Steel

The argument that a particular religion is right while other religions are "wrong" is repulsive to many because, in most cases, it carries the implication that the right go to heaven while those who see not the light wallow irredeemably in condemnation. The Jehovah's Witnesses see their God as merciful and are determined to see their religious competitors eliminated rather than incarcerated. Evangelicals are in the untenable position of, on the one hand, preaching that their God is one of love, but that if one fails to experience a mystical event in accepting Jesus Christ, he will consign you on the day of judgment to suffer in a lake of fire forever -- that is, untold trillions of years suffering while he and the faithful dwell in eternal bliss. But...how one can enjoy the eternities while their loved ones are writhing in Hell is, to me, one of the great inconsistencies of their religion.

The Muslim Heaven actually rises above Hell so the righteous can enjoy a pleasant evening dining with beautiful women and looking down on the eternal suffering of the wicked and gloat.

This is one of the problems with religions that claim exclusivity: the fate of others. Mormonism doesn't have this problem, and that's one reason I was attracted to the religion. Evangelical Christians have been known to publicly condemn other Christians for suggesting that Jews who don't accept Jesus in this life can be saved. They argue that this life is the only place and time where one has the ability to accept Christ, and if you don't, you will suffer for eternity.

But these religions miss a crucial fact. In the Book of Revelation, it specifically mentions those who inherit damnation: “the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Notice a term that is often neglected in many translations: “their portions.” A portion is something that is meted out. It does not mean eternity.

I could have no part in a religion, nor worship a God that would be so unjust as to torture someone just for the sake of torture. The LDS views Hell as remedial. Fire not only burns, it refines, and Joseph Smith taught that in Hell, man is his own tormentor. The fire is not literal, but according to a revelation: “For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit.” It's this suffering that causes the wicked to see their sins in God's context. So whatever Hell is, it doesn't include people who are of other faiths.

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49

Do religious people fear that their religion may be wrong???

by James Mixon in

because there are so many religions in the world and it is obvious that no matter what the truth is, a large population of people will be wrong about it.

we at one time believe we had the truth and 99% of the world population were in darkness, but i wonder about folks in other religions today.

speaking with a christian friend about this and he told me," that's for god to decide, i hope i'am serving god"...the sad thing about all of this if one die and still believe in his religion, he will never know he was in the wrong religion.

Cold Steel

David_Jay » Can a Latter-day Saint have doubt and even wrestle with their religious concepts and doctrines as Jews as encouraged to? Or is doubt to be avoided?
Absolutely. Someone once said, "Certainty has fools for children." One isn't born into a state of knowing. One must progress line upon line, precept upon precept until they come to a sure knowledge. To call doubt a sin is foolishness. The LDS must wrestle with their beliefs as anyone else must, but we also believe it's possible to perfectly know, which places knowledge beyond doubt.

49

Do religious people fear that their religion may be wrong???

by James Mixon in

because there are so many religions in the world and it is obvious that no matter what the truth is, a large population of people will be wrong about it.

we at one time believe we had the truth and 99% of the world population were in darkness, but i wonder about folks in other religions today.

speaking with a christian friend about this and he told me," that's for god to decide, i hope i'am serving god"...the sad thing about all of this if one die and still believe in his religion, he will never know he was in the wrong religion.

Cold Steel

As a Mormon I've never had the slightest doubts regarding my religion. I did a great deal of searching before joining it and a great deal of research since.

I didn't want a religion that condemned others who weren't of my faith, and though we believe that wickedness will be destroyed before Christ's return, we don't relish that destruction as the JWs do, nor do we covet the homes of the wicked as I've heard many dubs do.

Our eschatology is one that makes sense to me, but it's really cognitive dissonance that most people wonder about. That works both ways, actually. There are many satiated religious people of all religions, but I don't see how any JW could be happy with all those meetings, and with the counseling that goes on. I think if I'd gotten involved with them that I would have lost my privileges pretty quick. I wouldn't put up with an elder counseling me on my friends, my home, job, my education or my grooming.

I also find the gloating JWs do to be appalling. There's no real theology scholarship in subjects like Ancient Scripture, History and so forth.

8

Ban the Watchtower

by biblexaminer in

the watchtower magazine of january 1st, 2000, which was preached worldwide, made clear that "the anointed" at watchtower headquarters "have shown lionlike courage in exposing false religion", false religion being any and all religions other than jehovah's witnesses.

this same issue made clear to you, that we "god's watchman class" have used the watchtower "magazine in vigorously proclaiming to mankind that the vindication of jehovah's sovereignty by christ's kingdom is at hand.

as far back as the watchtower of december 1, 1966, we, god's spokesman, warned that armageddon could not be avoided.

Cold Steel

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. -- Matthew 7

31

Circuit Overseer's Idiotic Comment

by FedUpJW in

at last night's clam the circuit overseer made this comment, "we elders sometimes have to act as judges in the congregation.

but we (the elders) are imperfect, and so cannot know everything about judicial matters.

that is why we (the elders) have the biblical rule that there must be at least two witnesses to wrongdoing.

Cold Steel

It can be troublesome when there are not two witnesses, but when it comes to pedophilia, no adult who is not a child's parent should ever have lone access to a child. Pedophile attacks happen in privacy, which makes it tough to witness. Thus, no elder or other adult should ever be given the opportunity to be alone with a child.

The two witness rule was meant to be equitable to both parties. But it can't operate behind closed doors.

27

Striking Out On My Own

by Saethydd in

those of you who know my story are aware that i'm currently disfellowshipped and living with my parents.

up until now, my plan has been to be reinstated and then fade, but recently my plans have changed.

in a conversation with my mother a few days ago and she made it clear that she would not be okay with me getting reinstated with the purpose of going inactive.

Cold Steel

Saethydd » if I'm gonna be damned anyway I may as well be damned for what I really am.

That's one of the issues. Why would you feel in any way under condemnation when The Truth is not the truth, but a sham that rests on a bunch of self-appointed shysters making claims they can't possibly sustain? The ancient church had bishops, priests, elders, deacons, teachers, seventy and evangelists. And the apostles were called and ordained by Christ. "For yew have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you." The JWs have put it's Governing Body in a position where they have chosen Jesus, but Jesus has not chosen them or ordained them.

The WTBTS bears no resemblance to the ancient church, and they have chosen themselves and are thus a manmade church. You have nothing to apologize for and they have no power to bind or loose (disfellowship). You are thus under no condemnation. So please stop thinking like that.

If you go to the internet and research Armageddon (forgetting everything you think you know about it), you'll discover it's far different in the Bible than what the JWs teach.

I hope you can find others you can bring out.

27

Striking Out On My Own

by Saethydd in

those of you who know my story are aware that i'm currently disfellowshipped and living with my parents.

up until now, my plan has been to be reinstated and then fade, but recently my plans have changed.

in a conversation with my mother a few days ago and she made it clear that she would not be okay with me getting reinstated with the purpose of going inactive.

Cold Steel

That may be counter productive.

If you send those letters, the people you send them to may simply see it as confirmation that you're an apostate. Such letters may sound one way to you and completely different to someone else, and you may say things you'll later regret.

If you're reinstated, that will remove the stigma of excommunication (and allow people to communicate with you), but it sounds as though your mom's on to you.

You may just want to consider a clean break. The greatest weakness of the JW movement is that it claims to represent God, yet there is not a single instance of God communicating anything to the Society, one way or the other. They quote Matthew 24 about the faithful and discreet slave who, when the Lord comes, will find him distributing spiritual food to the Lord's household. So they appointed themselves the Lord's faithful slave. But since the Lord allegedly came in 1914, technically this servant's duties should have already been fulfilled.

The Lord stated that when He returns, He will reject self-appointed servants, saying, "I never knew you!" And He gave the parable of the blind guides leading the blind, an obvious reference to false teachers leading foolish followers, neither of which receive revelation from God.

Your best bet might be just making a clean break. Staying in it will destroy you emotionally and spiritually.

4

Surprise Adam and the writer of Genesis.....

by James Mixon in

it's possible human were living in southern calif 130000 years ago.

yes young people were surfing at the beach, snow skiing down the mountains unaware that adam and eve believe they were the only ones on earth...lol.

Cold Steel

That's it? It's possible?

Sounds solid to me.

27

Acts 17;24

by jehovahs is dead in

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Cold Steel

First, I question most of the crap seen in these posters. Having studied mythologies, much of it is pure garbage. If the stories are read next to each other, the similarities pretty much vanish. Where, for example, does it state that Krishna or Horus were born on December 25? And why should it matter since Jesus was born in April or early May? Anyone can post anything without documentation, and there's precious little of it in such charts.